Words by jaythreeoh. Photos by Scott Stewart.
Yesterday, our channel-partners at Revivalist dropped this exclusive interview with Uncle Imani and Bootie Brown, the two remaining members of golden era West Coast hip-hop outfit The Pharcyde. The duo have been silent on the changes in classic group's line-up for years, but chose Okayplayer as the outlet to tell their story. To read part 1--including the untold story of how the classic beat for "Passin' Me By" was made and the initial split that left Imani and Brown holding a whole lot of unpaid bills and the legal rights to the name The Pharcyde--below.
>>>Read Part 1 (via Revivalist)
Read part 2 after the jump.
In 2008, Brown and Imani were again approached by Tré, this time with Fatlip along. They were proposing the quartet reunite for the Rock the Bells Festival. This being an event famous for bringing broken hip-hop acts together for onstage reunions, Imani and Brown were somewhat interested, but still leery. (“From the beginning, [Brown] was saying, ‘This shit is doomed!’” says Imani.)
They hadn’t been in correspondence with Tré and ‘Lip, and wanted to get the conversation back on a functional level before diving back into working together. They thought about maybe even pushing it back to the following year to perform at the annual event. But, the longer they took to decide, the more “the pressure was going down.”
“Fools be thinking we be on some hater shit!” says Imani. “And, it don’t even be no hater shit. It just be like, sometimes, some things just ain’t in our best interest, y’know what I mean? It may be in the best interest of some people, but it just don’t be in the best interest of us. So, It ain’t like we be hatin’, but we just gotta make decisions that’s gonna be in the best interest of us, Imani and Bootie Brown.”
They also had an issue with the way the contract was laid out.
“There were obvious holes that I can see with the contract,” explains Brown. “I was like, man… we don’t need to sign this. It’s not right; it’s not complete. Like, it’s there, but it’s not complete. There are some things that we just need to make sure of.”
This didn’t sit too well with the two semi-rejoined members. He continues:
“Tré’s manager listens to the [Rock the Bells management] who say, ‘Hey, if you guys don’t sign this, you guys aren’t gonna be a part of the [Festival].’ Now, everybody starts getting mad, like, ‘You gotta sign this! You gotta sign! You’re messing with the money!’”
Keeping in tune with their ideas of using the Pharcyde as a vehicle to help them Ride even further, Imani and Brown rethought the situation. While the two-member Pharcyde was hesitant to get back into business with former band mates, Brown, along with their longtime manager and friend, parlayed their Rock the Bells appearance into a lucrative, longer term hustle, deeming it beneficial for them to participate. However, since there was still some “back child support” to be paid from when Slimkid3 and Fatlip left their baby, the contract was made to divvy the income portions in favor of Imani and Brown.
The idea was to recoup a portion of the bills they were left to bear when the group split. But, the longer term hustle meant that after the uneven split from the initial Rock the Bells Festival money, there would be other show dates in which the pay would be equal. This seemed to be amicable and agreed upon by all, as Tré and ‘Lip appeared so intent on the contracts being signed.
After the Festival, the foursome continued to do one-off shows at spot dates together for several months. But, it was certainly not all the way live, as Brown and Imani often caught themselves standing, looking stupid, wondering why it’s got to be like that.
When it came to showing up for rehearsals, Tré would now be looking for complimentary rentals and hotel stays to come from where he lived to where they held practice sessions. Fatlip was busy gigging as a DJ and working on his Serato skills. Both Tré and ‘Lip went back to what they used to say about whose name signs the checks. (“They would say, ‘You guys don’t pay me,’” says Brown, “’[Delicious Vinyl head] Mike Ross pays me.’”) Though there were four members again, it started to feel like it was still just a duo, as the duo seemed to be the only ones focused on the Pharcyde. This, again, started to wear on them.
“It’s just, like, a hard pill to swallow every time you deal with somebody that just kind of flips the switch like that,” says Brown.
But, apparently, ‘Lip and Tré were beginning to feel the switch had been flipped on them, bringing back up the uneven paper distribution during the Rock the Bells Festival. Imani and Brown feel their actions were justified.
“Before the papers were signed,” says Brown, “and before everything was done, the reasons were clearly stated.”
He says the contract spelled out how the split was going to be for the Festival dollars, and there were no objections. Even after their initial reservations delayed the agreements being finalized, Tré’s manager made a special house call to make sure the contracts were signed.
“What I’m telling you is,” he continues, “not only did they know [how the payouts were being divided], but they were pressuring me to sign the contract!” he laughs. “It wasn’t nothing that was sneaked in on them, or anything of that nature that they didn’t know.”
Brown and Imani continued the Pharcyde Ride, having their attorneys look into their former record label’s accounting, as they felt they were never properly compensated for their works while on the label, which included never receiving any royalties for any of their recordings. They informed Tré of their plans to pursue this venture, asking for him to go in with them on it so they could all reap the benefits of whatever was being held back. According to them, Tré did the opposite, and reported their plans to Mike Ross and Delicious Vinyl.
While the end result of these actions is that that royalties are now indeed being paid, Imani and Brown believe the label being tipped off prevented them from obtaining everything they are rightfully owed.
Couple that with the fact that Fatlip made a confession to Brown (“He told me that he can’t stand to hear Imani’s voice, and can’t take being on stage with him anymore because of [it].”), the Pharcyde was officially back to being a duo with no immediate or future plans to reunite with Tré or ‘Lip again.
2012 marks the 20th year anniversary of Bizarre Ride II: the Pharcyde, which dropped in November of that year. Their former record label attempted to put a commemorative event together, and had both Fatlip and Tré on board. There were apparently attempts to bill the event as a Pharcyde show, though this was not legally possible without the two that own the name. What was decided upon was to theme it as a tribute event to the album.
To make the event pop, it was suggested that all four members be involved. Tré and ‘Lip set out to make that happen.
“That’s the same guy that Facebook’d me,” says Imani, “talking about, I need to come down and do the [Delicious Vinyl] show with him and get these millions! That’s why he’s funny! ‘Cause, he can’t stand my voice, but he’ll be the first one to call me on some, ‘We need to go do this.’ So, which is it?”
The show went on a few weeks ago, in late May, without Imani or Brown’s participation. The label opted to add two other Pharcyde affiliates to spit the missing members’ verses at the show, a move they were not too pleased with.
“The funny thing about J-Sw!ft is that he’s never been a rhymer before,” says Brown. Additionally, there were times that Brown mentioned there were slick comments on Sw!ft’s Twitter page about him. “I was like, man, this guy has a lot of jokes, he’s crackin’ jokes. But, then, to see him on stage and doing my part, I’m like, aww man, this is crazy! How you crack jokes on somebody and then go out there and—[laughs]—you know?”
According to Brown, they have heard of shows Tré and ‘Lip have done where another rapper will suck the air out of a helium balloon before kicking their verses, attempting to mock their apparently shrill voices. Imani adds: “I don’t care if Fatlip and Tré do my verses, I just don’t like it when I don’t know the dude [who’s doing it].”
While they didn’t care to be involved in the event, Brown says he did tune in, but with specific intentions.
“I watched the show on Ustream because I wanted to see what they were doing. And, I wanted to see the people that were involved, because, for my reference, I wanted to know exactly who I’m not going to involve myself with ever again.” [they laugh]
The idea that Tré and Fatlip had been back and forth in and out of the group, and coming around seemingly only when they were hard up, had Uncle Imani and Brown feeling a way about it.
“There comes a time where it’s just like, man… you don’t want to be the booty call no more!” laughs Bootie Brown. “Everybody has to kinda put in,” he explains, “and [not just] treat it like, ‘I’m just gonna show up at, y’kno, 3 or 4:00 in the morning, hit it off, and then I’ma be out. I’m not gonna deal with any of that, you guys deal with that.’ You know, but still wanna receive all of the accolades.” He goes on: “If you wanna receive the accolades, we have to be fair to ourselves, you gotta be fair with us, and we’ll be fair to you. But, you know, these are the necessary steps. I don’t think [they] just felt the same way.”
After almost four hours of conversation, it’s quite evident the two members that currently populate the Pharcyde are deeply affected by the events that have made up this peculiar rollercoaster. Uncle Imani has taken on more of the pissed-off mode. (“Since I’ve been in [the Pharcyde] for 20 years, I’ve had some of my best times ever on the planet, and, literally, some of my worst days as a human being.”) On the other hand, the tones of hurt and outright disappointment are felt in Bootie Brown’s voice. He summed up this most recent event:
“It would be totally different if [Fatlip] was coming like, ‘You know what, man? I’m sorry, and like, person-to person, we should just smash this. You know, I want to come to you and just talk about something.’ But, it’s all so, like—it’s all so robotic, and it’s all so man-made, and, just like, terrible-Hollywood-scripted that, you know—all of a sudden, there’s this anniversary show, and now you wanna reach out to me, because there’s gonna be these cameras and all this kinda stuff? And the only reason you’re reachin’ out to me is because—that’s gonna give you the authorization that you need to call it a real Pharcyde show.”
For now, you can see real Pharcyde shows featuring Bootie Brown and Uncle Imani performing material from any of the group’s four studio releases, plus some of their recent and upcoming solo projects. Imani has an EP out currently titled Blackdustt, with a full-length, ProBlaccMajik, due later this year; while Brown’s debut solo effort, Bird Talk, has him working hard on completion now.
No matter how many dollars or who is throwing them (Brown says, “We had will.i.am approach us about doing it, and guaranteed we won’t even have to be in the same studio!”), they are simply not interested in working with “those guys” anymore.
“I don’t wanna talk about that shit no more!” says Imani. “We still the Pharcyde, we still makin’ music, and we still doin’ stuff. It seem like, we always gettin’ potholed and pegged on about it. And it’s like, shit—I would like to just be able to make some dope music, and just cut out the rigmarole.” He adds: “So, it’s like, we making music. I don’t know what they doin’; I know what we doin’. And, I wanna continue doin’ what we doin’.”
Ride on.
