Blu & Exile On New Album, the Old Days, the New Ones, Dream Cyphers and More

Okayplayer: When did you two start recording this project?

Blu: 2020.

Exile: The reason why it took a while to come out is because it's actually out of about 60 songs, and so we have been working all these four years in building this project, and the secret information is it's all part of a bigger project.

How many songs did you end up recording for it?

Blu: We created about 60 songs and picked the best songs for this first release.

Exile: I wouldn't say we picked the best songs for the first release. We picked the best songs to build this release.

Your album title is also a philosophy: love a world that isn’t always so great. What was it that made you embrace that idea?

Blu: I think it had to do with the pandemic as well. It's a model for life for me specifically to stay optimistic in the face of adversity.

Was that always something you were able to do?

Blu: I try my best to in all situations. It's a model that I live by. I feel like I was given this point of view of life by God. I feel like I've been this way my whole life. And I feel like for me it's just spreading that message. You know what I mean? Spreading the message of what helps me get through life, help other people.

Exile: Yeah, it's like faith is bigger than religion, but it helps and just faith in your existence and what God has given us. And if it sounds cliche, but to make the best of it, but also I've been through a lot of things. My mother has taken her life. I grew up as a welfare kid. I've been to jail fights or the world. There's wars. And even in the state of how the world is with Trump, people feel like it's maybe even the newer generation of kids might feel like it's just hopeless, but it's just kind of like love. The ominous world is like, don't give up on your humanity or humanity in general and just let the love in your heart find the love that God has placed on earth for us to be.

You two have worked together for a very long time now — long enough to know how your sounds and approaches have evolved over the years. Blu, how is 2006 Exile different from 2024 Exile?

Blu: Ex is more experienced now, so he's more hands-on. He can apply more of his experience to an experience. And I think he's matured a lot through his production. He mastered the MPC and completely mastered it and he started working on different beat machines. I think this is the first time where he used different beat machines as opposed to just the MPC. He has a bigger pocket now. He’s had huge pockets on the MPC, but it seems like his pocket is more mature. It's like you can't just step into it. Any rapper can't just step on an Exile beat right now. You have to have something to say. You have to know how to say it. You have to bring some type of mastery and experience to the situation yourself.

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Working with each other as long as you have, Exile, how is 2024 Blu different from 2006 Blu?

Exile: Blu in 2006 was fresh and young. He still lives all these things, but he went through many hardships up until that point definitely. We've gone through a lot more and so is Blu. Overcoming his hardships has left him a man of wisdom and also a man of prolificness. He does not stop working. We'll be working on that stuff, I’ll go downstairs, I'll come back up and he’s already finished another album with somebody. “I'm like, what the fuck?”

Now, Blu, you’ve been rapping for a long time, and everyone has phases, and right now, I’m thinking about the classic Gatorade commercial where Michael Jordan played against his younger self. Who do you think wins a rap contest: 2006 Blu or 2024 Blu?

Blu: I have that battle every day. Every time I pick up a pen, I'm battling myself. And I don't know. I don't know who takes it. I think it is based on the audience because I can't decide, you know what I mean? Sometimes I like my older material more than my new material. I like my new material more than my older material. It just changes and I feel like it is able to fluctuate that way because it's coming from me. It's the same source. I don't know who's taking that. I'm pretty consistent. I would say it's pretty much the same.

Let’s get theoretical. Let’s say you’re looking to have an all-time cypher with three other rappers. Who would be in it?

Blu: Exile beat. Nas, Common and Kendrick. I'm dying to get one in with Common and Nas, come on man. That's the ultimate right there. And Kendrick as well.

I know you’ll say you would have the best verse. But who would have the second one?

Blu: Common and Nas are bringing it right now. You know what I mean? They’re both [from the] early ’90s and they’re still potent with it. But Kendrick has his hand on the pulse, so he would know what to do quicker. So, I would say Kendrick.

Ok, what about you, Exile. You on the beat, Blu, and three other rappers.

Exile: I’ll go Mos Def, Black Thought and Ab-Soul. I just wanna hear Blu and Mos Def together. Ab-Soul, just because he is a wild wordsmith and he's from LA and he's not an obvious pick like Kendrick.

Blu, out of all the newer rappers out there, who reminds you the most of yourself?

Blu: I don't know if I'm going to be disrespecting people by saying this. They'll be like, “Nigga, I don't listen to you.” I like Kota The Friend and Navy Blue. Those are two artists I really gravitate towards. Navy Blue is the most poetic MC in the game right now, and Kota… you relate to his music so much. I think that's what made Below The Heavens special was people being able to relate to it so easy. Kota has a way of making day-to-day shit sound dope and make you feel like it's not extra flashy.

A lot has changed since you two dropped Below The Heavens in 2007. We’re now at the extreme point of the streaming era. Do you think it was easier to be an independent artist then or now?

Blu: I would say back then [it was easier], because we were coming out of the age of being signed to majors. We were just entering the independent label game, and they were trying to mirror major labels. And now the independent game means you are putting out your music independently.

What about you, Exile? Was it easier or more difficult to come up independently back then?

Exile: I think it was easier to get known back then. I mean obviously because internet was fresh and now it's like anybody can be visible or can create visibility for themselves as an artist a lot easier, which sounds like it would be easier, but it makes it more difficult because now you got to really fucking take off the gloves and fight your way to be fucking seen. And it's not easy. I've been selling mixtapes since 1994; pre-internet shit. And there was definitely a lot less competition in those days. [ Me and Blu’s] album getting leaked to Okayplayer was, at the time, devastating to us. But it was really one of our biggest gifts because the message boards just went fucking ballistic over Below the Heavens. Before our album even dropped, we were pulling up to Kansas City doing shows and people were saying the lyrics along with us and we were like, “What the fuck is going on right now?”

That image of you slinging tapes in ’94 is great.

Exile: I've been doing this since 17 fucking years old man. I'm fucking 47. But we're still hungry for it. We're making these albums like they’re the last we're going to make, but they’re not. That gives us a whole different type of hunger.